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I've been wondering this for a while, but if motion designers have the skillset to take a project from script to sound on their own, how come there aren't more original indie animated shorts created by motion designers? Is it imposter syndrome? Lack of storytelling know-how? Is there just not enough time outside of work for another project? Are people just waiting for a reason?
What would encourage y'all to make an animated short on your own?
This words are so true, so accurate and very encouraging.
Naivety to put yourself under that process and the understanding that shorts take a lot of time, energy and resources. I believe is important in times when you are ready to jump ship. To keep pushing, as they are really not a sprint but a marathon.
"You really got to want to make a short, at the expense of other things, and you really have to believe in it. I think we want to believe that our favorite filmmakers didn’t make a sacrifice. But they all did." <3
Perhaps I was not as clear as I could have been.
An example may help. Let's take your 25 second static shot as an example.
Let's say it is a character standing looking out on a cityscape.
The narrative animator has another, say 4 minutes of animation to create to finish the piece.
So they have to make a judgment as to how much time they are going to spend on that 25 seconds so they can get the other 4 minutes done. So they may make a few loops in the city to create a sense of motion, since it is animated, enough to keep their story moving forward and of course this is in the style of the piece, but it is not as much animation, perhaps, as they wish they could put into it. But they have 4 more minutes of animation to do, and they have already worked on the first 4 minutes for 8 weeks.
A motion designer may look at that 25 second segment and think - how can I make the city look alive and design 10 animations, none of which loop, to bring it to life. But that may take them 2-4 weeks, just to do that the way they imagine it.
I am generalizing, of course - but I am not saying one thing is better than the other - which I get a sense of from comments.
I am just noting the difference in approach to the work which I think is interesting.
I really struggle writing ideas for animated shorts - I am just not good at coming up with smart succinct scripts. I find it quite a frustrating process, constantly clipping ideas in order to try and write something that might be achievable by a small team working for buttons.
For now I have decided to try and scale up rather than scale back and try and get some more substantial stuff written (one 30 min animated special, one feature doc). Even though the chances of getting them commissioned is very slim I have found the process of developing the projects really rewarding.
Because it’s HARD.
More specifically, it’s hard on:
1. The wallet: I took a large chunk of time off to make one and wound up closer to broke than I have been in years. It was every bit as intense as client work and left me wanting a break way more than wanting to go start new projects for money. TBH painting makes more financial sense.
2. The mind: at least 50% of that short was hard, repetitive stuff I didn’t really want to do that many times. I got bored. Progress is SLOW with only two people. It’s difficult to stay engaged. It’s also lonely.
3. The body: I ate too much junk and worked late nights because that’s what happens when I make artwork. I admittedly lack discipline ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
4. The ego: there’s so many different things to do in a short that you’re bound to be bad at half of them, minimum. Also, even when you get decent internet attention, it kind of feels like no one cares.
If I did it again, I would either 1. Set up the project to be more experimental, shorter, and non-narrative so there’s less shit-work and more discovery through process and/or 2. Get funding from somewhere (lolz it could happen) and hire a team so it all happens at a faster pace.
Or I could just keep doing things that bring me joy, like watching other people’s short fims.
"A motion designer thinks about how much better they can make that amazing 5 seconds by adding more animation or artwork or better transitions or effects other things....
A narrative animator often makes compromises and may not spend as much time on 5 seconds of animation because they have five minutes or more to create and want to finish it this year!"
This is a bit of a faulty generalization. Narrative animators aren't cutting corners for length's sake. The narrative drives the work - there might be :25s shot that is static but that doesn't mean weeks of design haven't gone into making it as compelling as possible. Another shot might be :03s but packed with character action and camera movement and takes weeks or more to conceive and realize.
Everyone wants their work to look amazing. Istagram is also filled with character animation that has been meticulously designed and rendered, perhaps you are simply focusing on motion designers.
I think you are going to offend artists of both types with these descriptions!
Artists who want things to look a particular way can ALSO want to infuse work with meaning and Narrative artists ALSO want their stories to look really good.
I would make an analogy to painting. Matisse, or Cezanne, say, wanted to show you things in a way that you had never seen before, and were not concerned with story, although both were considered 'figurative' painters. This way of showing you something could also carry meaning, but not narrative meaning.
If you are interested, I write a blog on tumblr called 'The Art of Animated Gifs' where I explore this topic in more detail....I have also made a few posts here in Mixed Parts
https://www.tumblr.com/blog/the-art-of-animated-gifs
I agree and disagree with different things you're saying here. I do think there are two types of artists, and this extends past motion design into other artistic fields: artists who like to make things look really really good, and artists who like to infuse their work with some kind of beginning-middle-end story meaning, and are willing to sacrifice visuals for that meaning.
But, I don't think the length has much to do with it. Titmouse has an annual 5 second day festival, where their employees make 5 second animated shorts, and Things Took a Turn had an 8 second submission last year, both run on the narrative side. There's nothing wrong with being narrative moreso over visual or vice versa, and definitely collaborations between the two types of people make the best work.
Last year after talking about it for several years, I took off 4 weeks to actually make something for myself. It was something I could do because I knew I had a gig scheduled for after my time off, so I knew money wouldn't really be an issue. Not having to think about that was a major factor for sure.
I think what has held me back previously is after working 8-10 hours a day, the last thing I want to do is sit by a computer another 6 hours a night. By giving myself the ability/time to actually think of my short film as a job with a set timeline, I didn't have to work 16 hour days but could work 8-10 and feel like I was doing something for me.
Was planning on doing it again this January, but ended up getting contacted about a gig that was hard to turn down. So, I plan on doing it again this year-- just have to figure out when that time is.
There is a kind of thinking which I think is faulty about animation:
That something that moves only has real value if it tells a story.
I think that plenty of animation can be aspire to and achieve the status of art without having a story. This I think is the place where many motion designers are in the spectrum of the arts - they are more concerned with images (and their motions) than with story
Many narrative animators are more akin to filmmakers or graphic novelists who are mostly concerned with story.
My response echos yours in some ways. I do not think it is just about demonstrating technical ability though....I think for many motion designers the idea is that the amazing 5 second sequence is satisfying...and a goal in itself. The creation of short animations that do not have a story are closer I think to painting....
Fascinating conversation. This is why I love Mixed Parts!
My take is a bit different than most here...
I think a big part of why many motion designers do not create narratives is that motion designers focus on seconds, not minutes.
A motion designer works really hard to make 5 seconds amazing....
A narrative animator is concerned with telling an amazing story which frequently is many minutes long...
A motion designer thinks about how much better they can make that amazing 5 seconds by adding more animation or artwork or better transitions or effects other things....
A narrative animator often makes compromises and may not spend as much time on 5 seconds of animation because they have five minutes or more to create and want to finish it this year!
This is why I personally have gravitated toward gif art, which I think is where many motion designers exist - where 5 seconds is worked very hard on. Instagram and Tumblr is filled with such artists.
This is not to demean narrative animators, who tend to represent their work on Vimeo. They have different goals and approach the work differently. For them success is for the 5 minute story to be told well and for a motion designer the goal is to make 5 seconds look amazing.
Of course there are overlaps between the two.....
This is from the perspective of a super small studio. So not a one-woman band. But having just participated in the better worlds series, and made a few shorts over the last couple years, I can say they’re a ton of work. And you probably need one of two things - 1. Naivety. This works well when you don’t know what you’re getting yourself into. You don’t see the mountain or the marathon. You just get excited and go. That has its problems (like not finishing or dying during the climb) but can sometimes work. 2. Would be a really strong reason to complete it. I almost always have something I want to get out of it that I’ve never done. With the last one my main goal was to do synced dialogue. And a bunch of character animation. More than we’ve ever done. I wanted to know what it was like to do that. What it took, what resources I’d need in the future etc. other times it’s attempt at styles. Or attempts at writing something for a chuckle or writing something that resonates emotionally. But for me, it’s generally one thing that propels me all the way through without quitting. The more you do, the less naive you can be about the substantial commitment. But then again it’s always surprising what comes out of it. I once shot a short film just because I wanted to know what it was like to procure a bunch of different locations. We shot in 14 locations. Now I know. It was dumb. But hey, I know how to walk into a place and sweet talk a business owner into letting me use their location after midnight. Super useful indie filmmaking skill.
Also... I just had this thought but filmmaking isn’t synonymous with being a motion designer. You really got to want to make a short, at the expense of other things, and you really have to believe in it. I think we want to believe that our favorite filmmakers didn’t make a sacrifice. But they all did. They all had the same doubts and insecurities and somehow made early low budge or nobudge shorts or music vids. We certainly can’t have it all. There is always something you’re giving up. This could go into grumpy territory but i always try and look at the lives of my favorite creatives and see what they’ve given up in order to do what they do. Usually it’s pretty sobering.
I know I’m part of a small studio (seriously there is only 3 of us) but you don’t have to do it all alone. I feel like I spearhead a lot and take things to the finish line, but people love to jump in and help on something with someone they can trust will take their contribution all the way to the end. And the more you gain trust and appreciate other artists involvement the more people are gladly willing to help.
I guess it’s important for me to collaborate, even if I’m doing 80%. But back to my point (what was my point?) you won’t get out of it without a lot of pain. Sometimes it doesn’t feel worth that effort when you’re done. Sometimes you hate it halfway thru. But to me, the development of a voice, a craft, collaborative teammates, etc is worth the pain. But then again I’ve really put myself in some shitty financial holes that I’ve had to dig out of over and over again. Apparently I remain naive when I get excited about something.
For sure, motion designers specifically are typically dealing with design rather than narrative & character compared to animators. They spend less time in that sand box, so fewer narrative shorts might come, but I see a number of non-traditional animated pieces. Where ones creative juices are focused makes a big difference - sometimes the busier you are the more creatively stimulated you are, sometimes when you're not busy the harder it is to get inspired. By the way, love the Things Took a Turn, can't wait to see what it features.
People have talked a lot about the cost (Time), but I think it would be good to look at the benefit and value of creating the work. Specifically exploring how that value affects the output and cost. Currently there are slim chances at having any financial returns on a indie ani film. So most people are looking for social returns leading to popularity and/or gigs. That's where you run into the biggest problem there's a lack of a surefire outlet and return for independent work. Currently festivals, online exposure, and social media feel like a crap shoot. That makes that super long time investment super nerve wracking and risky.
I don't have the capacity to change the value side, So my friends and I talk a lot about changing the cost side (Time)
We've explored 3 ideas:
1. Spread the risk. Using community and partnership to split the risk and cost of production. We can play to our strengths without losing sleep over a possible flop.
2. Lowering the bar. We can't all compete with the Verge and Yeah Haus right now; so let's play a different game. Exploring more experimental or less polished approaches than can have a unique impact. Or compacting a 3 minute story into 15 seconds.
3. Enjoy the process not the product. I think the concerns about time are super valid but what if we looked at the time as the value and validation as a by product. Animating alone is not typically a blast but there are other ways to make work. I've had jam nights with friends where we made assets/text/clips on a theme and edited them together the week later. I've also done a weekend animation with a group of 4. The film that had a "light" festival run, but I wasn't worried because we legitimately had fun making it and had a super low time cost. Both productions were not knock outs but worth it because it was fun, helped build my community, and I learned a ton.
This came across little preachy but I just wanted to explore positive solutions to these problems. I've had tons of problems completing my own independent shorts but I think lowering the risk and having fun is a good starting place. Anyone else have ideas?
I was thinking about this topic some more after the Slack chat, and whether or not people see themselves as a Filmmakers/Directors/having a story to tell, versus wanting to demonstrate their technical or artistic abilities for studios/clients/other Motion Designers.
Adding onto this, there can also be less of an incentive for a Motion Designer to spend a long period of time on 1 longer project. If the goal is to work with certain studios or clients, then it may feel like there's a bigger incentive to demonstrate certain skills by working on several smaller/shorter projects where the focus is on the quality of execution for that technique or style, and less so about story.
With animation, the focus tends to be more on the performance of the characters, and the story that you can tell through those performances. This lends itself to using longer scenes and runtimes than a motion piece might use.
I've had a few starts and stops on various personal short projects. The reality of it for me had been underestimating the amount of work to get the projects done.... or even the work that goes into writing and look dev. And getting a team or even collaborator is difficult as well, especially for the long haul of a job.
The first 40 percent, 60 percent may be smooth going but the closer you get to the end the chances of something falling apart multiply.
I do still intend to make personal work, but it is a serious challenge.
But for animators who come out of school into the entertainment animation industry it's almost expected that they'll always be making shorts on the side. Time and money aside, I think there's a fundamental emphasis on story and fiction that's present for students of animation and absent from motion design, since it's seen as more of a creative job job than a creative endeavor.
I think that kind of infrastructure is something to strive for but I'm not sure how to make it happen or be effective unless it's treated like a workplace. If it's subjected to the whims and personal schedules of the people participating it might just be another system that fails to deliver on its intentions. There's accountability and then there's making sure that outside parties adhere to the same kind and level of accountability. This kind of structure works in a workplace because everyone's bottom line is on the line. When it's personal project based, it's a tall order to make someone feel like they have the same investment as the person who's responsible for the project. Unless people are acting as backers, and have a clear hand in the outcome then their incentives just don't really meet up. And it can go for either party, right? The writers room could end up more invested than the animator.
I don't have an answer on how to make that infrastructure more readily available and functional.
There are quite a few animated shorts that come out every week, but most of them are either: a) student films made by passionate young filmmakers with fewer distractions/responsibilities, or b) team studio projects that are fully-funded. So, yeah as others have said, TIME, otherwise I think many of us would sit back, craft stories, and draft designs for long-term projects. But it's difficult to commit to that kind of dedication when most of us have professional and financial responsibilities. It's like asking why doesn't that session guitarist make more solo albums?
Do you think some kind of writers room community could help with keeping people interested and evolving in their projects over time? Obviously it's hard when it's all on your own gumption, but do you think a regular feedback center and place to hold you accountable would make it more likely people would finish their projects?
Time and money are the obvious answers. Shorts are hard work. And a lot of it at that. But, I think it's also a state of mind. Creating a world, telling a story, and having a perspective you want to share isn't necessarily something that comes with the technical skill to do it.
In addition, it's not always something that is encouraged in the 'motion graphics' educational path and studio environments. It's easy to get wrapped up moving shapes around, making something 20% bigger, making it blue instead of red. How about slowing it down? Or making it faster! Also, can you do it all right now? Like, right right now. Then start over tomorrow please. That sort of work can shape people.
It's not just knowing the tools. It's a frame of mind.
For me, I thought it's been a time thing. Reading William Joel's comment in this thread, though, makes me think there's a way to keep em comin, though. First, carve out time to make one. Then... make another and maybe another. And then, see if there's a way to get money by doing this for others – so long as it agrees with your values and lifestyle and needs, etc.
Hey Russ! We (The Verge) have no master agenda, just the normal make great work that our audience loves & keeps them coming back (plus maybe the, "holy shit, we just made an animated series" angle). My personal agenda is to have us start making more like this this year. Better Worlds was a concept pitched by one of our editors. Initially as just short stories. We then talked a lot about what else we could do with a series like this and saw an opportunity to make some really amazing animations based on those stories. We got a sponsor behind it for a bit and made what we could. We're all super happy with how each story, podcast, and video have come out and we're hoping they perform well because that will ultimately be a large factor in doing more series and one-offs. Which I really hope we do!
$$$$$$
As a character animator I can tell you how much time goes into original shorts. Factor in doing it by yourself and you've got a full time job that doesn't pay anything. Bills pile up, you have no time for anything other than this project that will most likely burn you out, fall into perfectionism territory and never see completion, or simply take so long that it no longer resembles what you envisioned, or worse, you simply lose the interest.
The process of crafting story takes a lot of time in and of itself. And that's with a background in storytelling. The little detail that no one wants to tell you or admit to is that crafting a successful story is incredibly difficult. Even with years of focusing on story, studying film history I've learned to admit that my storytelling isn't strong enough.
So then you'd have to bring other people on board who have these skills. But their time deserves $$$$ so you have to find a way to pay them. And on and on.
So TL;DR: Funding and a team. Those are the obstacles.
For me, it's mostly time, but then also coming up with a story that's worth putting all that time into.
I made a short film that I started working on in 2014 and finished in 2016. It's not very good and only about two and a half minutes, but it still took two years to finish (a lot of that time was spent rendering 3D without any real knowledge of render optimization though). A big part of why I managed to do it was that I didn't really know what I was getting myself into when I started it, and it would have been too heartbreaking to quit it once I had spent so much time on it. Today, I can't really look at it as all I see are the flaws, but I guess that goes for a lot of the work you produce once you get far enough removed from it.
Since I released that film, I've been thinking on starting a new project but spending all that time is very daunting. I'm a much better storyteller now and I feel confident I'd make a better film now, but I still need a story to tell. None of the ideas I've had seem to be worth it. Lately, I've been thinking of a new story I like, but I haven't really been able to actually sit down write the script yet.
I agree with Nebojsa. It's definitely a time thing. Also It's hard to remain motivated outside of work to see through something as ambitious as a short film. Even a 30-60 second film is something that's tricky to commit to. Its even harder for those of us who also have families. Even those who don't have a family need time away from the screen with friends. You would go mental otherwise.
However other people still manage it so it must be possible. I think its probably easier to do it with a dedicated crew rather than doing it by yourself. Though that creates its own logistical problems.
It takes real dedication to make an engaging film whilst also working full time. So kudos to those of you that have managed it. Would be interesting to hear how those people managed it.
More funding options would make it a lot easier. I'd love to know why and how this series of verge shorts are being produced, need more of that kind of thing. Although I'm sure the verge have some kind of agenda with it.
I think governments need to get involved in more arts funding for short and feature films. With more short films means more accomplished directors. More accomplished directors means more talent to make feature films and awesome feature films means big money and more jobs for people in the creative industries. It's win win for everybody.